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  • Toyota prius banned?

    It is could happen,

    Could the Prius and other Toyota hybrids be banned from the U.S.? It seems unthinkable, but that's one possible ending to a patent investigation launched this week.

    This case centers around Paice, a tiny Florida company that has patented a way to apply force to a car's wheels from the electric motor or the internal combustion engine.

    Paice thinks that Toyota (TM) is infringing on its technology, and is going after the automaker in court. The legal spat became much more serious for Toyota this week, when the U.S. International Trade Commission decided to investigate the matter.

    The problem is that the ITC can stop any imports that infringe on U.S. patents. So in the worst-case scenario for Toyota, the commission could ban the hybrid Camry, third-generation Prius, Lexus HS250h sedan and Lexus RX450h SUV, according to Bloomberg.

    And that could potentially be devastating for Toyota, which Bloomberg says has sold more than 1.1 million hybrids in the U.S. in the last decade -- most of them Prius cars.

    Paice won a 2005 patent suit against Toyota in federal court in Marshall, Tex. And you might snicker at that, because Marshall is notorious for granting all sorts of wacko patent cases. But still, the verdict was upheld on appeal, and a judge ordered Toyota to pay royalties to Paice based on car sales.

    Paice has more lawsuits against Toyota in the Marshall court, and some may go to trial in January.

    So can't Toyota just throw a little licensing money at Paice and make it go away? It's not that easy, according to one lawyer familiar with the case. Paice wants the cars banned.

    "As soon as Paice wins an exclusion order from the ITC, Toyota’s in trouble," the lawyer, Michael Murphy, told HybridCars.com. "It doesn’t matter that Toyota can appeal that decision. And it doesn’t matter that Toyota might eventually have that decision overturned. For some indeterminate period of time, perhaps months, Toyota is stuck without any ability to bring these new vehicles into the United States and sell them. Think of the cost. Toyota would lose millions of dollars."

    Realistically, the chances that Toyota hybrids will be banned are slim. Paice likely would accept big money -- not puny licensing payments -- from Toyota in return for dropping its complaints, so there is a way out for Toyota here.

    At any rate, this isn't helping Toyota in the U.S. The automaker saw its sales drop 29% through August in the U.S., its largest market, and is struggling to revive its business here.

    Toyota is still blazing ahead with its hybrids, and plans to add one or two more versions of the Prius, according to Reuters. Toyota also plans to spend $1 million in a marketing blitz in the fourth quarter -- about 30% to 40% more than it would normally spend to promote its cars.

  • #2
    I doubt it'll ever come to banning them here. People seem to be starstruck by them. Let the market decide if they'll continue to sell. My neighbor is unhappy that she recently had to pay $500 to have her Prius batteries "checked" Surely she has re-calculated that into the cost of ownership/mileage, etc. That and the fact that it doesn't work very well for her in the winter as she ends up driving a Yukon to get to work on snowy days. Kinda defeats the purpose of owning a "green car" in my opinion.

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    • #3
      lots of cars are shitty in the snow... ie. mustangs and camaro's. ya need snow tires. same goes for hybrids. I put all season tires on my honda hybrid cuz the stock hi-mpg tires were shitty in the snow and ice. simple 300.00 fix. I get double the mpg compared to the old 2003 zx2 we used to have. that is alot of money saved imho. but to each his own. But this is not 1955 and we need to pay it forward.

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      • #4
        In 1995, we had cars only a few years old delivering high 40MPG or better (Metro, Festiva, CRX, etc).
        My 91 CRX in stock form (before I swapped), regularly saw 53+ MPG.
        91...I bought it in 03. So that was a 12 yr old motor...Still pulling 50+ MPG.
        Granted, power is lackluster, but it's been proven possible for decades before now.

        Electric is the quick way to overcome the power lacking. Still, 60 MPG isn't really that impressive in the grand scheme.
        As for the Green argument, how much is the carbon footprint actually reduced when you consider:
        Mining minerals for the battery which is
        Built in Canada
        Shipped to Japan
        Installed in Car
        Shipped to US

        I'll keep my petrol/E85/Diesel cars.

        Seems to me turbo diesel is the way to go, anyways. People just need to open up their eyes.

        As for the Toyota thing, it's still a major problem, even if not outright banned.
        If any ruling is in favor of Paice (i.e. - no settlement for money or license fees), all import and sale of their hybrids grinds to a halt.
        If Toyota doesn't like the terms, and proceeds to appeal, that prolongs the lockout.
        That's a big deal on your bread and butter.

        I guess without knowing what Paice's motive is, we have no choice but to watch it pan out.

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        • #5
          I agree. Like I've said before, people who buy those types of cars seem to think they are smarter or more caring about the environment but if they looked at the total cost of ownership, they'd realize that a Corolla is a smarter choice if Toyota is the brand of choice.

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          • #6
            My wife's old '85 crx got 50mpg years ago and that was with a carbed engine. I don't know what happened but someone who makes cars has dropped the ball on all of this.

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            • #7
              ok, what's the carbon footprint of 3rd world countries, drilling oil, with no smog reg's. then loading into a huge denali oil ship and cruising 3k miles to the u.s.a ????? My one and only point is we should try to reduce and conserve to save money and to help save the planet for our great grand kids! But stuffy old men will always do what they want cuz their thinking is based in the '50's.............lol give your money to the arab's they love us so much they want to blow us to bit's....

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              • #8
                Hmmm...the last time I checked and regardless of what you may think, we don't live in a 3rd world country. We can't control what goes on in those countries because we can't even control what goes on here.

                It sounds like you and people who drive the hybrids think that anyone else who elects to drive cars other than hybrids are damaging the earth for our grandkids, which also implies that anyone who doesn't drive a hybrid doesn't care about the environment. That's pure brainwashing...Al Gore style.

                You know...the hypocrite who preached that we're ruining the environment all while he flew around in jets spewing pollution and living in a house that used vulgar amounts of energy. But, he's smart because he's made millions off the very people like you who fell for it. He called it "global warming" but due to temperatures actually slightly cooling, that term wasn't as effective, so now that has changed to "climate change" lol

                The pollutants sent into the air from the manufacturing process of your hybrid (mining of nickel for batteries, shipping etc) are just as...if not more damaging than most other cars getting less mpg.

                The deficit is far more damaging to our grandkids than the difference between what a Denali and a Prius emits into the atmosphere.

                Why don't you and your green tree friends get upset about Mt St Helens and other volcanoes? Maybe you can form a coalition to "cap them off". lol
                http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...olcano01m.html

                One step further...why not kill all the cows because the methane gas they emit is also damaging. http://animals.howstuffworks.com/mam...ethane-cow.htm

                FYI, most lawnmowers pollute more than a Denali. lol

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                • #9
                  By the way...you keep posting and implying that Denalis don't get good mileage are are bad for the environment. Don't you own a F150 4x4? I recall it having a "Triflin" (Triton) V-8. If I recall, it's a 4.6. I'm not sure what year it is, but let's compare a typical 4.6 Triflin against a 403 hp Denali. If it's a '99 4.6 F150, those are rated at only 16 highway.

                  Hopefully if you care so much about carbon footprint, the environment and grand kids future, you'll stop being a hypocrite like Al Gore & get rid of the F150 with that Triflin V-8 and strictly drive your 110 hp Civic. Go Green!!!!!

                  2000 Ford F150 Pickup 4WD

                  Model
                  city hwy
                  Ford F150 Pickup 4WD 6 cyl, 4.2 L, Automatic 4-spd, 0.00042, Regular









                  12.2










                  14
                  city
                  17
                  hwy




                  Ford F150 Pickup 4WD 6 cyl, 4.2 L, Manual 5-spd, 0.00042, Regular









                  12.2









                  13
                  city
                  17
                  hwy






                  Ford F150 Pickup 4WD 8 cyl, 4.6 L, Automatic 4-spd, 0.00046, Regular









                  13.1









                  13
                  city
                  17
                  hwy



                  Ford F150 Pickup 4WD 8 cyl, 4.6 L, Manual 5-spd, 0.00046, Regular









                  13.1









                  13
                  city
                  17
                  hwy






                  Ford F150 Pickup 4WD 8 cyl, 5.4 L, Automatic 4-spd, 0.00054, Regular









                  13.1









                  12
                  city
                  16
                  hwy










                  2009 GMC Yukon Denali 1500 AWD


                  Flex-fuel Vehicle





                  New EPA MPG New MPG tests are more realistic


                  Gasoline
                  12

                  City

                  14

                  Combined

                  19

                  Hwy

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                  • #10
                    Owning a hybrid doesn't make a damn bit of difference on the environment. The Earth's climate fluctuates and changes on its own - Ice Ages back to warm climates back to Ice Ages and so on and so forth. Right now we happen to live in a moderate climate somewhere in between. The miniscule amounts of emissions automobiles emit compared to naturally occurring events aren't even a blip on the radar in the grand scheme of things. Politicians, the media, alarmists and other people with agendas love raising the red flag and causing panic though - because it puts money in their pockets.

                    Does that mean I think it's okay to throw trash on the ground and build cars that pollute just for the hell of it? Nope. But hybrids are not the answer. They are a marketing scam. You want to change the environment? Take the bus. Rally up people in the community and convince Congress to build a subway or expand the light rail system to interconnect the Twin Cities and surrounding suburbs. Ride a bike or walk to work. Work from home and convince others to do the same.

                    I wish more people relied on alternate transportation or mass transit, because then my drive to work would take less time, and it would be less stressful. It would also reduce pressure on Congress from the special interest Greenie lobbyists to enforce such strict CAFE regulations on car companies so as a car enthusiast, I still have the opportunity to purchase exciting cars, instead of low-power, ugly plastic shit-box "band-aids" that still cause pollution and don't provide any real solution to the "problem".

                    There's my 2 cents.

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                    • #11
                      funny.... very. i never said a denali is a gas guzzler. I just added that to the super tanker. jeez..lighten up. My F-150 is a 98. 4.6. and besides being a master piece of a truck, it guzzles gas and so doesn't get driven much anymore. I DO DRIVE THE CIVIC. I never said i was a tree hugger???? fool... gas is 2.58 a gal. does that make you happy?? do you think oil will last forever??? when i bought the worlds greatest truck, gas was 1.50 and the salesman said to get the 5.4. I laughed and said gas would never go down very much and i'll stick with the 4.6 and save a little money.gas has never returned to 1.50.... why??? And you're gonna compare a new truck to mine??? now that's funny. I do believe the new F-150 is 20mpg highway. Mine is maybe 16mpg. downhill. and yes, ford should do better at mpg on their trucks. I just want people to conserve so i have gas for the cobra. lol oh, by the way, my civic is a partial-zero emissions car. just for the record.

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                      • #12
                        Lol. You're a good shit. I just like messin with ya.

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                        • #13
                          saving on gas, saves money, thats value. I don't want any extra emissions on older cars. God know's the cobra would'nt pass any of them. But xtra mpg out of newer car's and truck's would help alot for all concerned.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 98 cobra s/c View Post
                            saving on gas, saves money, thats value. I don't want any extra emissions on older cars. God know's the cobra would'nt pass any of them. But xtra mpg out of newer car's and truck's would help alot for all concerned.
                            Most race cars wouldn't pass emissions. I know my SS would though. No doubt we could all appreciate xtra mpg. They'll figure out a way to get it done. Just don't want to have the gov dictate what I can drive by forcing the mfgs into building only 110 hp cars.

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