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6 myths about the Big 3

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  • 6 myths about the Big 3

    6 Myths About the Detroit 3
    Detroit Free Press

    By Mark Phelan
    Nov. 17, 2008
    The debate over aid to the Detroit-based automakers is awash with half-truths and misrepresentations that are endlessly repeated by everyone from members of Congress to journalists. Here are six myths about the companies and their vehicles, and the reality in each case.

    Myth No. 1: Nobody buys their vehicles.
    Reality: General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC sold 8.5 million vehicles in the United States last year and millions more around the world. GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the United States last year and holds a U.S. lead over Toyota of about 560,000 so far this year. Globally, GM in 2007 remained the world's largest automaker, selling 9,369,524 vehicles worldwide -- about 3,000 more than Toyota .
    Ford outsold Honda by about 850,000 and Nissan by more than 1.3 million vehicles in the United States last year.
    Chrysler sold more vehicles here than Nissan and Hyundai combined in 2007 and so far this year.

    Myth No. 2: They build unreliable junk.
    Reality: The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and '90s are long gone. Consumer Reports recently found that "Ford's reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers." The independent J.D. Power Initial Quality Study scored Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Mercury, Pontiac and Lincoln brands' overall quality as high or higher than that of Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Scion, Volkswagen and Volvo.
    Power rated the Chevrolet Malibu the highest-quality midsize sedan. Both the Malibu and Ford Fusion scored better than the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.

    Myth No. 3: They build gas-guzzlers.
    Reality: All of the Detroit Three build midsize sedans the Environmental Protection Agency rates at 29-33 miles per gallon on the highway. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Malibu gets 33 m.p.g. on the highway, 2 m.p.g. better than the best Honda Accord. The most fuel-efficient Ford Focus has the same highway fuel economy ratings as the most efficient Toyota Corolla. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Cobalt has the same city fuel economy and better highway fuel economy than the most efficient non-hybrid Honda Civic. A recent study by Edmunds.com found that the Chevrolet Aveo subcompact is the least expensive car to buy and operate.

    Myth No. 4: They already got a $25-billion bailout.
    Reality: None of that money has been lent out and may not be for more than a year. In addition, it can, by law, be used only to invest in future vehicles and technology, so it has no effect on the shortage of operating cash the companies face because of the economic slowdown that's killing them now.

    Myth No. 5: GM, Ford and Chrysler are idiots for investing in pickups and SUVs.
    Reality: The domestic companies' lineup has been truck-heavy, but Toyota , Nissan, Mercedes-Benz and BMW have all spent billions of dollars on pickups and SUVs because trucks are a large and historically profitable part of the auto industry. The most fuel-efficient full-size pickups from GM, Ford and Chrysler all have higher EPA fuel economy ratings than Toyota and Nissan's full-size pickups.

    Myth No. 6: They don't build hybrids.
    Reality: The Detroit Three got into the hybrid business late, but Ford and GM each now offers more hybrid models than Honda or Nissan, with several more due to hit the road in early 2009.

  • #2
    You forgot Myth No. 7

    The polititions are in office to represent people from their districts and not themselves

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    • #3
      Truth No. 1

      None of the big three offer an AWD turbocharged car in the USA... Ergo... I will not buy any of their vehicles.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by itsageo View Post
        Truth No. 1

        None of the big three offer an AWD turbocharged car in the USA... Ergo... I will not buy any of their vehicles.
        That's a pretty small client base. They won't miss you or the other select few who have to have AWD+turbo. They already sell the shit out of the Cobalt SS which destroys performance cars that cost two to three times as much even though it's FWD.

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        • #5
          Sorry I am a hard core GM guy and cobalts are fugly

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 602hp View Post
            Sorry I am a hard core GM guy and cobalts are fugly
            I'm not a huge fan of 4 cyls, and I don't think the Cobalt is extremely attractive, but for a car that traps 105 stock and tears up tracks like Nurburging for less than $23k - I think they are the best bang for the buck car out there right now. Stock it beat out cars like the E46 M3, the Audi S5, Lotus Exige, Jaguar XKR, BMW 335i, Nissan 350Z, Porsche 911 Carrera, Porsche Cayman S, Corvette C5, etc.... With just a tune, intake, exhaust they are running low 13s and trapping 110+. For someone who wants good gas mileage in an affordable car with some balls, there really aren't many other options out there.

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            • #7
              The problem I was trying to hit on is that they DO offer cars over seas that me, and many other Americans would like...

              How about a better looking focus
              How about a Focus with a diesel that gets 40+ mpg
              How about a compact GM with an actual nice interior

              They produce the cars, I for the last 10 years have been wondering why, not here.

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              • #8
                Interior approval is subjective. People constantly complain about GM interiors, but turn around and have no problem driving other cars with worse interiors. We sat in an M5 at the auto show and it looked cheaper than an Impala.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by itsageo View Post
                  The problem I was trying to hit on is that they DO offer cars over seas that me, and many other Americans would like...

                  How about a better looking focus
                  How about a Focus with a diesel that gets 40+ mpg
                  How about a compact GM with an actual nice interior

                  They produce the cars, I for the last 10 years have been wondering why, not here.
                  I know for a fact that cars like the Focus are in for a refresh and will be competitive in the MGP department. The Chevy Cruze wil use a 1.4 liter turbocharged 4 cyl and is estimated to get over 40 mpg on the highway. And it looks nice too. The Volt is in a whole new league. It has a 40 mile rage where it can use electric power only. So if you just use it for work, chances are you will use no gas. If you need to take it on a road trip, a gas generator kicks in and helps recharge the electric battery so you don't get stranded like many Prius owners will once they switch directly to electric only and need to plug in to recharge. No long distance trips for them. Chevrolet will offer more freedom becasue they won't belimited to a 200 mile range like the electric only competitors. What if you wanted to do a road trip, you get 200 miles out, and you can't find a place to recharge and you don't have the time to wait 4 to 8 hours to recharge. With vehicles like the volt, you won't have to worry about that at all. You have an electric motor that you can still charge in, but if you run out of juice the gas generator kicks in and gets you to where you need to go giving it a range of 500 to 600 miles when the tank is only like 12 gallons. Chevrolet has really used innovation that should make cars like the Prius and Honda hybrid OLD tech and old news in the next few years.

                  Also I am all for using small liter turbodiesels in the U.S. I know there are some stupid regulations that don't allow for us to sell them here - but look at all the success Mercedes and VW is having with their BlueTec and TDI models. I've seen reports of Jetta TDIs getting 55 mpg city and 60 mpg highway. Now if a junk ass compnay like Jetty can make a turbodiesel like that, why can't we get some here? They would sell like hotcakes because they are affordable and get better MPG than a Prius. I know GM can make something like this - I think it's just getting around the stigma in Washington that Diesels are dirty and hard to maintain, but Jetta and Mercedes have shown that they are environmentally friendly, increase gas mileage, not noisy like old diesels, and with proper maintenance can last for hundreds of thousands of miles. I'd rather drive a Chevrolet built 55+ mpg turbo diesel than a POS Prius.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by itsageo View Post
                    The problem I was trying to hit on is that they DO offer cars over seas that me, and many other Americans would like...

                    How about a better looking focus
                    How about a Focus with a diesel that gets 40+ mpg
                    How about a compact GM with an actual nice interior

                    They produce the cars, I for the last 10 years have been wondering why, not here.
                    I never cared for the Focus, and I don't follow Ford that much so I don't know what they are doing about a 40 mpg turbodiesel.

                    I do know for instance that the Cobalt as a great interior for a $20k car, the Malibu is more of a mid-size but it has outstanding interior and the JD Powers quality reviews have been oustanding. The Chevrolet Cruze and the Volt will have very nice interiors.

                    The GM haters like to hold on to the fact that the 80s were a rough time and they believe that directly correlates to the products offered today. GM makes quality vehicles that are on par and even better than their foreign competitors when it comes to quality. The new Malibu, the Silverado, the Tahoe, the Impala - these are all world class cars in their segment. The problem is that GM does not run their business as well as Toyota and Honda, and the cost per vehicle is what kills them. Because of health care, the UAW, and pension costs, the US Automakers are at a disadvantage of $2000 per vehicle compared to Toyota and Honda. No wonder people think the Japs have better quality - they have an extra $2000 head start per vehicle over the U.S.

                    I can assure you however that today's GM makes cars that are extremely reliable, have high quality, great design, and appeal to the buyer market. One more problem they face is that the media seems out to get GM. They think GM needs to fail and I saw a lady on CNN talking out of her ass about why GM was failing and one reason was becaue they make a product that is crappy compared to the products Toyota and Honda make. If I was on the show I could have strangled her because she was completely talking out of her ass. If you are going to present a news report on something to millions of Americans, you better have your facts straight otherwise get ready to get canned. This type of stuff is what mainstream America reads and a seed is planted in their head that American cars=prolems. Overcoming negative stereo-types in the US general public against US automakers is one of the biggest hurdles the big three need to overcome.

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                    • #11
                      We know damn well that auto makers can make cars (though mostly compacts) that can hit the upper 40's and into the 50's for MPG on standard 89 octane.
                      My CRX in stock form regularly got 51+ HWY.
                      Ford Festiva is another example. Geo Metro's are known to get ridiculous mileage.
                      And all of that tech is nearly 20 years old.
                      Granted, they had slim to no power, but they didn't cost a weeks pay to run for a month, either. For the person who gas mileage is a major issue, power should be near the bottom of the list anyways.

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                      • #12
                        I know GM can produce them, but they don't and have just started to get their heads out of their asses and good for them.

                        And don't act like Honda and Toyota are done developing their hybrid/plug in cars, they aren't.

                        Also, all the cars in the last post come from Japan lol.

                        Metro=Suzuki swift
                        Festiva= Mazda 121/Kia Pride
                        CRX is of course Honda.

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                        • #13
                          Good point.
                          Still, it's 20 year old tech.
                          It's not like it's a big mystery. It's been doable, and common knowledge for 2 decades.

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