No talk about the nurbrbrbrbrbrbring lap by the new Mustang?

[DNeinstadt]

I'm disappointed!

http://www.ford-trucks.com/articles/...p-time/?fbford

stir stir stir....

When's winter over?

[fast toys]

I read that, interesting.

[MR.hp]

Would love to see some of these car go at it up at BIR.

[Fast One]

Things will be quite different when the Camaro switches to the lightweight, rigid, 50/50 ratio, corner-carving Alpha platform next year. Along with gaining the Alpha platform's world-class handling chops, the Camaro will loose hundreds of pounds of pork. Ford will need to up their game if they want the Mustang to keep up.

Joel

[Z28SSMAN]

Interesting that Ford had to use the Magnetic control shocks to get the results they weren't able to before.

Of course...Ford is using a hydroforming on their F-150 frames which was originally designed on the Corvette and then GM utilized it on their full size pickups. Ford copied that afterwards.

It's nice and flattering that Ford has to use technology that GM has pioneered.

When GM Engineers were working with Delphi(AC Delco) Engineers on a magnetic shock, this was all within the "GM" world. General Motors, I.E the engineering dept and delphi, created the magnetic shock absorber. Magneride and MRC are the same thing. It doesn't matter what it has been called over the years, "GM" created the product originally. It was/has since then been handed off to Delphi when they split, and then BWI bought the chassis division of Delphi and they sell it under the Magneride brand. You can see on the Magneride website at the bottom their customers include the brands Chevy, GMC, Cadillac because they are the current supplier of the current iteration of MRC/Magneride.

FORD is using a product from Magneride/BWI that was originally invented by GM/Delphi.


I'm glad that GM has stuck with the pushrod motors instead of the complicated 4 cam 32v Ford behemoth design.

[Fast One]

.....I'm glad that GM has stuck with the pushrod motors instead of the complicated 4 cam 32v Ford behemoth design.

Remember - GM's latest hotrod engine is the Buick-developed DOHC, quad-valve, hemi-headed, direct-injected, VVT 3.6L V6 w/all-forged rotating assy, which was reportedly designed from the ground-up to reliably handle over 600 HP with twin turbos.

I predict that it will only be a matter of time before pushrod engines go extinct in factory production cars, due to ever-tightening emissions & fuel economy standards.

Joel

[Z28SSMAN]

I think it's great to have a variety of powertrains. The new DOHC 3.6 makes more sense than Ford's Ecoboost, but will it be suitable for a full size SUV used for towing?

Ford's Ecoboost is a prime example of a twin turbo V6 trying to be all things to all 1/2 ton pickup truck owners.

I think most will agree that in order to get the torque & horsepower of a pushrod LS V8 from a twin turbo V6, you'll have to work the turbos hard. Extra cylinder pressure and stress to get similar results and most likely worse fuel economy doesn't make much sense in my opinion. In a lightweight passenger car, it would make more sense though.

As far as fuel economy standards? GM's pushrod motors exceed most competitors' OHC motors in power and fuel economy.

[Fast One]

I agree completely regarding pickups & larger SUVs. Even with all of the shiny forged rotating bits & it's O-ringed heads, I seriously doubt that GM's 3.6L twin-turbo could handle pulling a 10,000 lb trailer for very long. The turbos & exhaust system upstream of the cats would be glowing white-hot. In lugging apps, a small-displacement turbo V6 gas-burner would need to be built as stout as a diesel truck engine in order to provide the reliability of a larger-cube na V8 gas-burner. And that would make it a horrendously expensive little V6! The n/a 3.6L is already more expensive than the current SBC.

Regarding pushrod engines - I know that GM has done a remarkable job of keeping theirs current. Did you know that Buick's 3800 V6 was the first gasoline engine in the world to achieve ULEV status? Pretty damned impressive for a low-tech pushrod engine. I routinely average 22+ MPG with my blown 3800-powered GTP while driving to work & back in rush-hour traffic, and I can average an astonishing 34 MPG any time I want when driving from here to Warroad - just by driving the speed-limit, using the cruise-control, and accelerating moderately off the line. On a good day, it gets 36 MPG steady-state @ 55 MPH on a level road with no wind - running 91 octane non-oxy. Even at 77 MPH on the Interstate, it averages 28 MPG steady-state. Damn good numbers for a 13-year-old non-hybrid mid-size car that does 0-60 in 6 seconds & can carry 5 people plus baggage.

And everyone knows that newer 'Vettes can get seemingly-impossible MPG on the highway when they're driven conservatively. Some of the car mags reported getting over 30 MPG on a level highway with no wind while driving the speed-limit with the cruise on. Amazing for a non-hybrid that runs 11s in the quarter & tops-out at 200+ MPH.

But the upcoming EPA rules are going to make it far tougher for GM to keep their pushrod engines in the game - at least in passenger car apps. I hope they'll be able to pull it off, but I'm not sure if they have enough tricks left up their sleeve. If they do, it will be a marvel of engineering, and a testament to the sheer genius of their engine design group.

Joel