Camaro Outsells Mustang In 2012

[MR.hp]

The muscle car wars have been raging ever since Dodge and Chevy brought back two of the biggest nameplates in American motoring, the Camaro and Challenger, to go up against the ever-present Mustang. All three of the Detroit automakers have been battling to position their muscle cars as King of the Hill, both in raw performance and sales numbers.

For Chevy fans, there is good reason to celebrate, as 2012 saw the Camaro sell more units than the refreshed 2013 Mustang… albeit by less than 1,500 cars, reports Fox News.

That means the Mustang made a huge comeback in 2012 compared to 2011, when the Camaro crushed it in sales by a whopping 18,000 units. This year the numbers were much, much closer. By the end of the year, Ford had sold 82,995 Mustangs to Chevy’s 84,391 Camaros. The Camaro has been outselling the Mustang since 2010, though the Mustang has slowly but surely been closing the sales gap.

Indeed, the Camaro is getting a bit long in the tooth, and Ford’s mid-cycle refresh of the Mustang no doubt helped move some extra sheet metal. For now though, the Camaro remains king. And as for the Challenger? Well Dodge managed to move just over 43,000 units of its retro muscle car, putting it in a distant third place.

[Z28SSMAN]

I actually sold Fords years ago. I distinctly remember dealers selling new Fords to themselves in order to beat Chev. And Ford brags about F150 being best selling truck for 50 years.

[DNeinstadt]

Well I was a huge Ford fan but now that I've read both of these posts, I am ditching the Blue oval for good! LOL, I love you guys. When we going to argue GM vs. Ford over wings or something?

[Z28SSMAN]

That's pretty funny. BWW sounds good to me. I haven't had indigestion for quite awhile, so I'm kinda looking forward to it.

[Fast One]

The ZL1 also trounced the GT500 in C&D's lightning lap. The $58,500 7.1 lb/HP ZL1 turned a 2:57.5, while the $63,000 5.9 lb/HP GT500 turned a 3:00.6. That puts the ZL1 in some lofty company, as it also beat the Porsche 911 Carrera S and the Mercedes C63 AMG Black Series.

Even more embarrassing, the $38,000 9.1 lb/HP Camaro SS turned a 3:01.5 - just one second slower than the GT500! But the SS beat the $132,900 7.4 lb/HP Jaguar XKR-S by half a second!

Looks like we finally have some American muscle that can carve corners with the best of 'em.

Joel

[DNeinstadt]

LOL, I think it's funny that back in 2001, Ford was working on the corner carvers market with the SVT Cobra with an aluminum block & IRS and all the GM guys were touting straight axles & drag racing #'s, and now it's the other way around and the Camaro ZL1 is the best road racing car all over the place vs the heavy GT500.

My how things have changed?

[Fast One]

The Camaro is heavy, but GM manages to hide it rather well in this case. In fact, the ZL1 they tested weighed a portly 4111 pounds vs. 3896 for the GT500. At 7.1 lb/HP vs 5.9 lb/HP, the ZL1 also had a significant power-to-weight disadvantage. (Even more embarrassing for the blue oval guys.) But the Camaro's front/rear ratio is a lot closer to 50/50. It's far more balanced overall, and you can put all 580 HP to the pavement without having to be a Warren Johnson & a Dale Earnhardt at the same time in order to keep it from swapping ends. Pretty much anyone could drive the Camaro near the limit without getting into trouble.

BTW - whatever happened to the 3500-3600 lb muscle car?? With today's metals and composites, I'd think it would be relatively easy to pull off a 3600-lb V8 muscle-car without breaking the bank. I'd think that the aluminum engines, unibody construction, strut front-ends, aluminum suspension parts, IRS, and the use of aluminum & composite hoods, front-clips, door panels, and trunk lids would more than offset the extra weight of today's safety systems.

Joel

[fast toys]

Racing a new Camaro is like racing an old 60's Impala. Both are like 4200 lbs.

[Z28SSMAN]

LOL, I think it's funny that back in 2001, Ford was working on the corner carvers market with the SVT Cobra with an aluminum block & IRS and all the GM guys were touting straight axles & drag racing #'s, and now it's the other way around and the Camaro ZL1 is the best road racing car all over the place vs the heavy GT500.

My how things have changed?

Yeah, how about when Mustangs outsold F-bodies even though the LS1 versions absolutely bitch-slapped them. Ford guys would say "horsepower isn't that important". Now as you say..."my how things have changed" and the GT500 has the higher hp rating...hp is everything and the technology superiority of the Camaro isn't important.. Yeah...my how things have changed. lol.

[98 cobra s/c]

congrats to chev.

[DNeinstadt]

Yeah, how about when Mustangs outsold F-bodies even though the LS1 versions absolutely bitch-slapped them. Ford guys would say "horsepower isn't that important". Now as you say..."my how things have changed" and the GT500 has the higher hp rating...hp is everything and the technology superiority of the Camaro isn't important.. Yeah...my how things have changed. lol.

So you're taking a couple years of sales of the Camaro beating the Mustang (by a fairly narrow margin this year), and claiming GM has turned it around and the Mustang is junk? Guess the bailout money helped with that?

I didn't say anything at all about the technology of the Camaro, just that GM guys are quick to jump on whatever bandwagon they can at the time of the current car.

Regardless, another thread on TCO that will end in "Ford guys are stupid" and a lock. :)

Dan

[Fast One]

I didn't say anything at all about the technology of the Camaro, just that GM guys are quick to jump on whatever bandwagon they can at the time of the current car.

Dan

And your point is?

Diehard Ford guys are no different. For that matter, diehard brand-name guys in general are no different. At any rate - as much crap as I've took from Ford guys over the years for being a Buick guy, I don't feel the least bit guilty about giving some of it back.

I just wish we were talking about a hot Buick instead of a Camaro. Maybe in a couple of years, if they actually get to build the new GN/GNX on the decidedly superior (and much lighter) Alpha platform, as proposed. Under 3500 lb, 50/50, AWD, and their 425 HP 3.6L V6 TT, or a 425-450 HP LT1 - in a chassis worthy of the Nürburgring. That aught to get people's attention.

BTW - the 6th-gen Camaro will also be on the Alpha platform. I'm betting that a 500+ HP, 3500-lb Camaro with a 50/50 weight-ratio & AWD, perched upon a tight, Nürburgring-worthy chassis will really upset the applecart over in Blue Oval land.

Joel

[MR.hp]

So you're taking a couple years of sales of the Camaro beating the Mustang (by a fairly narrow margin this year), and claiming GM has turned it around and the Mustang is junk? Guess the bailout money helped with that?

I didn't say anything at all about the technology of the Camaro, just that GM guys are quick to jump on whatever bandwagon they can at the time of the current car.

Regardless, another thread on TCO that will end in "Ford guys are stupid" and a lock. :)

Dan

Na, I won't lock it Dan, you know you are starting to sound like dirty punch:lol: we are going to have to de-tcs you. Oh yes, Camaro's are better

[Z28SSMAN]

Can anyone show our viewers where I called a Mustang junk? And
WTF is it with people spewing the government bailout crap when discussing a car's performance? Rather than discuss the topic about each car, we resort to something that has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Could it be frustration about the facts?

[DNeinstadt]

OK, I'll stick around for a while. :)