Hey MR. Zman

[MR.hp]

Q:What's the difference between TCO and 4 of the other local sites in the Twin City area?

A: All 4 of the other sites failed and shut down :fail:

But TCO is still here :laugh_smile:

[Z28SSMAN]

Yeah, I honestly haven't had the need or time to check those sites out. From the reports I got, it was the same old crud that any reasonable person wouldn't want to waste their time on. Maybe the dipshits who frequented those sites can now just pick up the phone and spew the crud with each other to make themselves feel like they are better than the groups of people they bashed. Or maybe they'll just head back over to TCS where they'll be welcomed with open arms. They'll fit right in there because no one with any guts will tell them that garbage isn't necessary. As long as they are allowed to spew that garbage, we all know what site is the best...and it's right here...TCO!

[fast toys]

Q:What's the difference between TCO and 4 of the other local sites in the Twin City area?

A: All 4 of the other sites failed and shut down :fail:

But TCO is still here :laugh_smile:

:rlol: The for horse sites are gone
Most of the crap on thoose sites did them in, Not over moderating! but stupid
crap that those places let happen just to make more traffic.
That MNF body that was a good place but a few bad apples wrecked it and BAM it's gone.

This place is good because it's a thorn in others sides on the other sites that try to silence us.:dbag:

[Tradbuilt]

What other forums? Two Lane was down, but is back up. MNfbody is gone because of bad management and incompetent problem resolution. I was a paying member of that club for a year (1993 I believe) and most of the original club members were (are) great people. They were building a good reputation and did some pretty cool events at BIR. I learned a LOT about Fbody cars and mods relating to them from those guys. I ended up with my 89 Firebird being a pretty quick car for very little cash outlay. I still occasionally keep in touch with a couple of those original Fbody members (one of whom works for a former sponsor of that club).

The problem with clubs that accept anybody with the membership fee is that over time you WILL have idiots becoming members. When their forum first went online it was a pretty decent place, but went downhill over a long period of time. My club learned the hard way that you can't effectively run an open-to-the-public forum while being a car club. The forum "becomes" the club and eventually a free-for-all. We finally started our new forum and maintain it as a private, club members' only forum, with the rare exception of allowing in guest users. Mr. HP is one of our guest users.

I'll agree this is a decent forum for being as public as it is. That is NOT an easy thing to accomplish. Drama is counter-productive and the exact opposite of adult. I see some drama here, but it's almost ALWAYS provoked by some idiot that deserves any bashing they get from the owners of this forum. Granted, I prefer to see drama addressed and forgotten, rather than dragged out or stoking the fire as it occasionally is here, but...it's not "my" forum and you guys run it as you see fit to run it. Obviously you've been successful at it and somehow are able to have a little drama and survive it. That's also not an easy accomplishment.

I've never really understood the forum wars around here. What's the point of it? It's not like anybody running these forums is getting rich running one. If anything, the work and frustration of running a forum is most certainly NOT worth what you get in return. It's almost like a turf war or something. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if somebody eventually pushes somebody who is (let's say) "unstable" and somebody ends up getting hurt or worse when finally encountered face to face on the street somewhere. That might sound paranoid, but it isn't that unlikely these days IMO.

The frankensteiner's forum is pretty successful and a decent group of people also. I've met many of them. All have been cool people.

TCS is just plain hopeless. 99% of the posts there are useless. Obviously the point of that forum is drama and not useful tech or car related information (mostly). These are the small percentage of car people that give the rest of us a bad reputation.

I may have just opened myself up to some hate filled replies from some people with that statement. Generally, I don't post much at ANY local forum anymore. I haven't for a couple of years now. I got sick of having to put up with replies that have no purpose but to pick apart words for the purpose of starting an ongoing argument under the false pretence that it's "a debate".

[Quadroflux]

What 4 sites? I know mnfbody shut down and I hear min muscle did but not sure what other 2. I know I have said a few things here that might have touched a few nervs but only had admin tell me to tone it down once. Tco has been fair and when I have time this is the only place I go because tcs makes not much sense and can be to arogant

[Z28SSMAN]

Well, Tradbuilt, Bob does a good job keeping the rif-raf out of here.

I simply don't have time to babysit grown men.

We will eventually make some changes, but for now I'm ok with it the way it is.

There are a handful of reasons why we keep this site going. The main reason is because we really enjoy talking cars and performance.

We also needed a place to post because we didn't feel accepted and welcomed anyplace else in town, probably because we aren't the kind of guys who kiss ass in order to be part of a car site. I saw that happening at the other sites and just wasn't going to be a part of it. So, we do welcome car guys who appreciate our sport without including the crud found at the other site.

But as I've said before, I don't care if the site is as big as others, or if people decide not to post everyday. I realize that many people just simply have other things to do beside living and posting on a website everyday. When you tell people they should post everyday, they tend to just post nonsense and we don't need that.

I agree that MnFbody was a good alternative to TCS until they allowed the outrageous racist crap to be posted without objecting to it, then they ended up being pretty much a mirror of TCS. Not really a need for two TCS sites in this town, so we all know what happened there.

As far as being concerned about being threatened by others? Not at all. I grew up in Southern Illinois where I saw people shoot each other over a 50 cent game of pool. Those were hard-ass people and I got along with them without much of a problem. Most around town talk a big game on the internet but in person are pretty tame.

[MR.hp]

Thanks Glenn, I try to keep things running smooth and ya we did get rid of the riff raff
and now this palce runs prety good with the help of Fast Toys and a few others inc. Jollywrencher.
Scott I like your site also because it's small and has that down to earth feel to it. Don't worry about ruffling any feathers here all the rotten eggs are gone with the exception of LTD and we let him stay for the entertainment he provides.

[Tradbuilt]

Well, Tradbuilt, Bob does a good job keeping the rif-raf out of here.

I simply don't have time to babysit grown men.

We will eventually make some changes, but for now I'm ok with it the way it is.

There are a handful of reasons why we keep this site going. The main reason is because we really enjoy talking cars and performance.

We also needed a place to post because we didn't feel accepted and welcomed anyplace else in town, probably because we aren't the kind of guys who kiss ass in order to be part of a car site. I saw that happening at the other sites and just wasn't going to be a part of it. So, we do welcome car guys who appreciate our sport without including the crud found at the other site.

But as I've said before, I don't care if the site is as big as others, or if people decide not to post everyday. I realize that many people just simply have other things to do beside living and posting on a website everyday. When you tell people they should post everyday, they tend to just post nonsense and we don't need that.

I agree that MnFbody was a good alternative to TCS until they allowed the outrageous racist crap to be posted without objecting to it, then they ended up being pretty much a mirror of TCS. Not really a need for two TCS sites in this town, so we all know what happened there.

As far as being concerned about being threatened by others? Not at all. I grew up in Southern Illinois where I saw people shoot each other over a 50 cent game of pool. Those were hard-ass people and I got along with them without much of a problem. Most around town talk a big game on the internet but in person are pretty tame.

Yep. Bob's a good manager and a great guy. I got to meet him at an A&W run (quite awhile back already) and other places out and about. He's got a pretty cool kid too.

I'm glad I was already gone from fbody forum when that stuff happened. It was really civil the short time I was involved with that place.

My son lived in Chicagoland for two years. He just moved back here in September. It's definitely a "for real" city. Makes the punks in the Twin Cities look like wannabees in comparison (except for the real bangers that moved here from Chicago). I hated driving there though. And what's the deal with people driving with their 4-ways on when it rains?:laugh_smile:

[Bluetcster]

This place may be small but it has quality people, Unlike some sites I have been on.
Maybe the other places shut down for lack of real car enthusiasm.

I put my 4 ways on after I kick some tail.:laugh_smile:

[Guest]

What other forums? Two Lane was down, but is back up. MNfbody is gone because of bad management and incompetent problem resolution. I was a paying member of that club for a year (1993 I believe) and most of the original club members were (are) great people. They were building a good reputation and did some pretty cool events at BIR. I learned a LOT about Fbody cars and mods relating to them from those guys. I ended up with my 89 Firebird being a pretty quick car for very little cash outlay. I still occasionally keep in touch with a couple of those original Fbody members (one of whom works for a former sponsor of that club).

The problem with clubs that accept anybody with the membership fee is that over time you WILL have idiots becoming members. When their forum first went online it was a pretty decent place, but went downhill over a long period of time. My club learned the hard way that you can't effectively run an open-to-the-public forum while being a car club. The forum "becomes" the club and eventually a free-for-all. We finally started our new forum and maintain it as a private, club members' only forum, with the rare exception of allowing in guest users. Mr. HP is one of our guest users.

I'll agree this is a decent forum for being as public as it is. That is NOT an easy thing to accomplish. Drama is counter-productive and the exact opposite of adult. I see some drama here, but it's almost ALWAYS provoked by some idiot that deserves any bashing they get from the owners of this forum. Granted, I prefer to see drama addressed and forgotten, rather than dragged out or stoking the fire as it occasionally is here, but...it's not "my" forum and you guys run it as you see fit to run it. Obviously you've been successful at it and somehow are able to have a little drama and survive it. That's also not an easy accomplishment.

I've never really understood the forum wars around here. What's the point of it? It's not like anybody running these forums is getting rich running one. If anything, the work and frustration of running a forum is most certainly NOT worth what you get in return. It's almost like a turf war or something. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if somebody eventually pushes somebody who is (let's say) "unstable" and somebody ends up getting hurt or worse when finally encountered face to face on the street somewhere. That might sound paranoid, but it isn't that unlikely these days IMO.

The frankensteiner's forum is pretty successful and a decent group of people also. I've met many of them. All have been cool people.

TCS is just plain hopeless. 99% of the posts there are useless. Obviously the point of that forum is drama and not useful tech or car related information (mostly). These are the small percentage of car people that give the rest of us a bad reputation.

I may have just opened myself up to some hate filled replies from some people with that statement. Generally, I don't post much at ANY local forum anymore. I haven't for a couple of years now. I got sick of having to put up with replies that have no purpose but to pick apart words for the purpose of starting an ongoing argument under the false pretence that it's "a debate".

I’m a bit puzzled by your posting claims of mismanagement and incompetence while at the same time saying that you’re afraid of the replies that you might receive. I do have some information that I believe is inaccurate so you’re fully welcome to correct me if you have a better source. Most of the original members were involved with how the club was operated up to the very last year or so. From my knowledge MNFB originated in early 2001 and because it was a for profit site it was necessary to keep it open to the public to gain members and revenue. There is money to be made by local forums (and clubs) depending on how it is run.

I agree that when running an open site that there will be idiots as well as people that simply won’t get along. There are simple and effective ways to handle it, but from my experience it often results in unwanted complications. Corrective action by other peer members is the best way to handle this while administrative action often results in resentment. I’ve noticed that there are a lot of issues with the local forums but often membership input is held back or that it’s addressed (by both parties) in such a way that results in unnecessary drama. Other times drama is used as a means for entertainment/fun for some members and also for increased traffic for some paid websites. Many times the arguments you see are between people that have a beer later that evening. Both large and small membership websites have their advantages with the larger ones containing several smaller groups that coexist with each other. It is similar to how the club part of MNFB existed while others were just regular posters or used the site for it’s classifieds.

I’ve always heard good things about the frankensteiner's and it’s too bad people can’t visit to see if it’s something they’d like to be a part of. I know I’ve met a lot of friends and given and received a lot of help from all of the forums in town. There are other open websites that lack drama but they are seldom mentioned because of the reasons you already gave so I can see why a person would want to protect it.

Anyways I hope you don’t hold anything against me for my reply, it is a chance you take sometimes.

[Tradbuilt]

Sorry.....this kind of turned into a "blog". It'll probably be pretty boring for most users here.

I’m a bit puzzled by your posting claims of mismanagement and incompetence while at the same time saying that you’re afraid of the replies that you might receive. I do have some information that I believe is inaccurate so you’re fully welcome to correct me if you have a better source. Most of the original members were involved with how the club was operated up to the very last year or so. From my knowledge MNFB originated in early 2001 and because it was a for profit site it was necessary to keep it open to the public to gain members and revenue. There is money to be made by local forums (and clubs) depending on how it is run.

In retrospect, I should have prefaced my "mismanagement" comments with the fact that it is based on second hand information and therefore "hearsay". I have no way of validating that claim whatsoever and hadn't been a member there after 2004. I can understand your being puzzled, since you obviously were involved there longer than I was, your info might be quite different from my info. I'll retract that part gladly as unsubstantiated. As I said, I was only involved with that club for one year or so. I have nothing against any of the MNFbody guys that I knew while a member there at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I did have some major disagreements with one member of the club after I left, but it was all differences of political opinion and had nothing to do with club stuff.

As far as the money making part of it, I never had any interest in making money with the forums I've run. My only objective was communication with like-minded people. My club has existed 5 years now on next to no money at all. I guess it all depends on individual goals and objectives. Our club's objective is purely camaraderie. Any costs are absorbed by all of us, based on each person's ability to "kick in". We've just never had the need for paid sponsorship, so I can't really relate to that very well.

When I mentioned I had some concern about possible replies, I wasn't talking about reasonable disagreement with some of what I had to say, such as your reply. "Discussion" I have no problem with. Hate filled retaliatory flaming is what I don't like dealing with.

I agree that when running an open site that there will be idiots as well as people that simply won’t get along. There are simple and effective ways to handle it, but from my experience it often results in unwanted complications. Corrective action by other peer members is the best way to handle this while administrative action often results in resentment. I’ve noticed that there are a lot of issues with the local forums but often membership input is held back or that it’s addressed (by both parties) in such a way that results in unnecessary drama. Other times drama is used as a means for entertainment/fun for some members and also for increased traffic for some paid websites. Many times the arguments you see are between people that have a beer later that evening. Both large and small membership websites have their advantages with the larger ones containing several smaller groups that coexist with each other. It is similar to how the club part of MNFB existed while others were just regular posters or used the site for it’s classifieds.

I don't get why arguments (generally not even relating to the subject at hand.....cars) are entertaining to anybody. But, as I said, my club doesn't have need for outside sponsorship/money, so forum traffic means nothing to me. Off-topic arguing is counter-productive to friendships. One of the reasons I dropped out of sight for awhile on the forums (especially tcs) was because I had real reason to believe a specific person (who targeted me constantly whenever I posted) would have gotten physical without hesitation. I won't go into private PM's I got from that person that made me believe so. I kept copies of his private messages to me specifically as a record should it have become necessary to involve the authorities.

I’ve always heard good things about the frankensteiner's and it’s too bad people can’t visit to see if it’s something they’d like to be a part of. I know I’ve met a lot of friends and given and received a lot of help from all of the forums in town. There are other open websites that lack drama but they are seldom mentioned because of the reasons you already gave so I can see why a person would want to protect it.

I don't think frankensteiners forum is a closed forum. I could be wrong, but as far as I'm aware anybody can register there. My club's forum "is" a private forum however, since it's primarily a communication tool for our club's members. I've gotten some grief for that from some people that think just because it exists on the internet it should therefore be open to anybody that wants to register. As I see it, as long as the person that put it online is paying to maintain it's web presence (without sponsorship), it can be a closed/private venue. If somebody emails me at the address we provide on our site and asks me if they can register, we do consider it and occasionally let them in as guest forum members. It just kind of depends on the reason they give us as to why they want to participate. They just don't get access to certain areas of the forum (which they never see anyhow and wouldn't even know are there).

Anyways I hope you don’t hold anything against me for my reply, it is a chance you take sometimes.

Absolutely I don't hold anything against a well thought out reply that is just asking for clarification. Anything else I need to clear up? Or, did I just make things even more convoluted?

[Guest]

Sorry.....this kind of turned into a "blog". It'll probably be pretty boring for most users here.




In retrospect, I should have prefaced my "mismanagement" comments with the fact that it is based on second hand information and therefore "hearsay". I have no way of validating that claim whatsoever and hadn't been a member there after 2004. I can understand your being puzzled, since you obviously were involved there longer than I was, your info might be quite different from my info. I'll retract that part gladly as unsubstantiated. As I said, I was only involved with that club for one year or so. I have nothing against any of the MNFbody guys that I knew while a member there at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I did have some major disagreements with one member of the club after I left, but it was all differences of political opinion and had nothing to do with club stuff.

As far as the money making part of it, I never had any interest in making money with the forums I've run. My only objective was communication with like-minded people. My club has existed 5 years now on next to no money at all. I guess it all depends on individual goals and objectives. Our club's objective is purely camaraderie. Any costs are absorbed by all of us, based on each person's ability to "kick in". We've just never had the need for paid sponsorship, so I can't really relate to that very well.

When I mentioned I had some concern about possible replies, I wasn't talking about reasonable disagreement with some of what I had to say, such as your reply. "Discussion" I have no problem with. Hate filled retaliatory flaming is what I don't like dealing with.



I don't get why arguments (generally not even relating to the subject at hand.....cars) are entertaining to anybody. But, as I said, my club doesn't have need for outside sponsorship/money, so forum traffic means nothing to me. Off-topic arguing is counter-productive to friendships. One of the reasons I dropped out of sight for awhile on the forums (especially tcs) was because I had real reason to believe a specific person (who targeted me constantly whenever I posted) would have gotten physical without hesitation. I won't go into private PM's I got from that person that made me believe so. I kept copies of his private messages to me specifically as a record should it have become necessary to involve the authorities.


I don't think frankensteiners forum is a closed forum. I could be wrong, but as far as I'm aware anybody can register there. My club's forum "is" a private forum however, since it's primarily a communication tool for our club's members. I've gotten some grief for that from some people that think just because it exists on the internet it should therefore be open to anybody that wants to register. As I see it, as long as the person that put it online is paying to maintain it's web presence (without sponsorship), it can be a closed/private venue. If somebody emails me at the address we provide on our site and asks me if they can register, we do consider it and occasionally let them in as guest forum members. It just kind of depends on the reason they give us as to why they want to participate. They just don't get access to certain areas of the forum (which they never see anyhow and wouldn't even know are there).


Absolutely I don't hold anything against a well thought out reply that is just asking for clarification. Anything else I need to clear up? Or, did I just make things even more convoluted?

No, not at all. To be honest, I wasn’t expecting as thorough of a reply. I wanted to make sure things were as accurate as possible to avoid rumors and so that people know what actually happened (at least from my perspective). There was a lot of tension during the last year or two so things could easily get out of hand again. If you didn’t know I was an admin on MNFB for the last few years and had been working on some of the issues it did have. I don’t recall when I joined but it looks like it was around the time that you left. Hope it wasn’t me. lol

I think it was very wise to avoid sponsorship as it can create internal conflicts and hinder what people can post at times. One of the main reasons MNGMP was started was to avoid sponsorship and the issues that can come with it.

I wasn’t aware of what happened with the PMs but it sounds pretty harsh. I completely understand your position there. Sorry you had to go through such an ordeal.

I must have gotten the two websites mixed up. It is the owners call on how its run regardless of what anyone thinks. It is amazing how much people can disagree or have opinions about how these message boards when they are in fact private entities. For some reason it makes me think of this: People demand their freedom of speech even if their only use of it is to make idiots of themselves.

I don’t want this to be a long conversation either, but I think we basically agree on most things anyways. I’m also not up to the long debates as much as I use to be.

[smooth_358]

Idk what the deal is with all the winter time drama lately on any of the forum's I frequent.. I haven't been on here much lately, but I have been busy actually working/hanging with the ladyfriend/ working on both my vw's..

I liked mnfb... that's where I was reeling in all my t56 info, which is now non existent.. which is lame.. because I need to learn a few things about it still..

I think there are like 3 forums that I can even stand to go on anymore. which is depressing since all three are completely different than each other, and that's the only reason that I can stand each one seperately

[Tradbuilt]

It might be cool to put up a forum and use it more like a library of technical information rather than as a "forum" as most people know them. Maybe harvest threads from various forums and other places and post it in a format that doesn't allow for commentary. Perhaps set up one section where anything unclear in the threads can be discussed.

That's something I might just keep in the back of my mind for awhile and see if I can pull it off at a later date. With the season coming back soon I won't have time, but maybe late next fall.

Kind of a weird idea, huh?

[MR.hp]

It might be cool to put up a forum and use it more like a library of technical information rather than as a "forum" as most people know them. Maybe harvest threads from various forums and other places and post it in a format that doesn't allow for commentary. Perhaps set up one section where anything unclear in the threads can be discussed.

That's something I might just keep in the back of my mind for awhile and see if I can pull it off at a later date. With the season coming back soon I won't have time, but maybe late next fall.

Kind of a weird idea, huh?

Not really as I did that when I started the purgetory section here. All the little bastards could do was start a thread and could not post or reply to any others threads. It does take some work to do this but it's not that bad.